What the hell is The Iron Butt Association Anyway? (And long distance riding?)

To some friends who have asked:

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you on this. Enter the rest of this email at your peril. Addiction follows as sure as sun follows rain....

In simple terms, you go to the Iron Butt Association (IBA) Page here - http://www.ironbutt.com/ or the Iron Butt Rally (run by the IBA) page here;

http://www.ironbutt.com/ibr.cfm 

or here for this years details: http://www.ironbutt.com/2017ibr/

Or here for a review on ONE DAY of the last rally! 

http://www.ironbutt.com/ibr/2015/Day1.pdf  This was the one I rode in.

BUT, I am preparing a more detailed response as a number of people have asked - eventually it will be on my BLOG here:

http://olafsbike.blogspot.com.au/ where you will also find all my 7 reports on the Iron Butt Rally 2015.

But before you go there, the Australian club and website for LDR's (both Long Distance Rides and Riders) in Australia is the Far Riders and you can find it here:

http://farriders.com.au/index.php

These guys generally do an RTE (Ride to Eat) on a Saturday at Noon anywhere in Australia. To get on their list you register for one of their rides (on their website), ride the 1000 km in 24 hours and bring a receipt for your starting time (after Noon Friday) to the event (as I did today for "East #43"). Your name gets added on the list, you get a number (mine is 489) and you are enshrined as an Australian Far Rider for ever in the website list. Everyone who is a FR is visible to anyone who wants to scroll down the list! Currently there are 1046 Members, and some of those are Aliens. 

The Iron Butt Rally is a different beast. It started in 1984 and runs every second year. It is organized (exceedingly professionally) by the Iron Butt Association who are based in the USA but operate in about 30 countries. To join the IBA you simply have to ride and document a 1000 MILE Ride (1610 km) in 24 hours. Document and submit to their Exacting standard. Go here for the IBA as before: http://www.ironbutt.com/ One of my close friends in Sydney realised he could ride his Harley to Melbourne and back and just qualify for membership of the IBA. He did it, got his certificate and has never tried again - "You have to be f....g crazy to do that weird shit again" he said.

NOW to get in the 11-day, highly competitive, Iron Butt Rally takes about four years. Thousands of people apply, and about 100 get accepted. As Mike Kneebone aka "Mr Nice-guy" is prone to say regularly, "More people have been into space than have finished the Iron Butt Rally" - and factually that is correct.

This thing is brutal. Finishers don't generally shake hands when they meet - they give huge bear-hugs (irrespective of gender) indicating "mate we went through hell together but wasn't it awesome!" The IBR is essentially a Scavenger Hunt for sites (not things) all over Canada and the USA, with points for the more remote and weird places (mountain tops, death valley, brothels, car museums, private homes, there is nothing they would not stoop to, to make it "interesting".)

There are no monetary prizes for the winners of the IBR. The first get a piece of plastic for the shelf and the rest - who finish - get a certificate. Plus Global Kudos. And one other thing. You cannot buy, trade, bargain or otherwise steal one of these - a three-digit IBA Membership number. You only get it when you have COMPLETED an Iron Butt Rally. Plenty of great riders have tried and failed. Mine is #517 - and it aint going nowhere!

On the alternate years there is another rally run in the USA, called "Butt Lite". IT is 6 days not 11 and has become insanely popular, mainly because it is brilliant practice for the IBR itself, and adds to your ride credentials (or Ride Biography that you have to provide when applying for the IBR)  I have ridden in Butt Lite VII and Butt Lite VIII. The organizers for Butt Lite are a quaint group from Minnesota called Team Strange. They started as a Ten Pin Bowling Club and morphed to motorcycles. Just to keep Butt Lite interesting, they regularly ask riders to play a game of bowls - and score their points into the Rally!

Go here to read about all their rallies; http://www.teamstrange.com/

So, who enters and why?

Well that is easy - Type "A" personalities make up 80% of the entrants. Great riders (well most of them anyway), athletes, US Marines, Policeman, pilots, NP Rangers - and regular Joes and Joans etc. One entrant last year was a "Naval Aviator" (F18 Pilot) who looked and acted like Tom Cruise. (How do you know when a Naval Aviator is in the room? Don't worry, he'll tell you!) The navy flew him back from Afghanistan just to compete.... and gave him all that weird food and psycho training. He came second.

Well that should get you started. Don't say I didn't warn you.

(More in the un-abridge version, like "is this dangerous?"

Olaf

"To Pee Or Whee, That is the Question" (IBA ACT Insanity SS1600)

The Iron Butt Association has some weird and wonderful Certificate Rides for the truly crazy.

One of those is the "ACT Insanity Ride", which is a multi-lap event round the Australian Capital Territory (ACT) totaling at least 1610 kilometres. For my US readers, somewhat like DC). This looked like the perfect practice ride (being #5 actually) for me, prior to the Iron Butt Rally (IBR) in late June 2017. So I put a little note on the IBA Australia Forum, looking for a companion and some witnesses for this ride, knowing full well, that I would get limited interest in the dead of winter. 

I was wrong. 
Almost thirty riders and 15 volunteers offered to join me. In the end, fourteen committed to ride and nine actually showed up on the day, with others having bike-battery problems and not feeling well. The magnificent nine were all IBA certified riders as it turned out, and included; Derrick Sutton, Michael "Fatman" and Lynne Morris "The Pillion - LTP", Craig "Wombattler" Harcombe, Simon Bell, Ron "Grey Gentry" Perry, Barry "Spaz" Martin, Kerry "Cliff" Clifford, Russell "RusJel" Smith and yours truly, Olaf "Olly" Moon. And as you would expect, turned up on all sorts of weird machinery including KTM, BMW, Honda, Triumph, Harley Davidson and Yamaha kit. From a blue R1200RT to a canary-yellow Tenere and a fire-engine red VFR. There was also an FJR and a Royal Star!

This ride is not your normal IBA Event. 
It requires pre-approval from the Association AND a record of every riders' lap odometer reading PLUS the normal 2-witness forms and petrol receipts. This I sought. Being determined to get all the paperwork correctly signed and completed would require a group of volunteers to be at the staging site for the full 24 hours, and to record all the "mileage" readings. Volunteers to stand in the freezing cold were Volunteers, Sheryle Moon, Sian Moon, Ed Husek, Lionel Haynes, Shane Jasprizza, Bill Beaton, Lisa Walsch and John Sullivan.  To this crew, we owe a huge thank you! Also, on the day a few others such as Martin Little and Nev showed up, plus some visitors from various places to watch the action. Who was the tall silver-hair stranger with the ear-ring and Triumph jacket?

We submitted the route to the IBA for approval, based on the original ride done by three riders in 2011. In that time-frame a number of changes had been made to the roads, including the completion of the dual-carriage Majura By-Pass, which made that section of the route a little quicker and a lot more comfortable - but more highly patrolled by the police. Each lap was about 84 kilometres depending on who was measuring, and should take about 1 hour 7 minutes according to Google Maps. Anyone circulating under 60 minutes was certainly efficient, and probably had a particularly good run through the traffic lights. 

The course went south down the Monaro Highway and then took two linked roundabouts, across to Tharwa Drive then to Drakeford Drive heading north. At Glenloch Interchange we took the West Belconnen slip lane, and headed west then north through Melba and Flynn up the "S'es". We then turned right at a T intersection, back to the Barton Hwy, then south to join Northbourne Ave. Here we turned left and headed up to the interchange with Majura Rd, then south past the airport to the Caltex at Hume where the start, stop and witness station was located. Here, Lionel had brought a large caravan, and with the approval of the station manager, parked here to create shelter for the volunteers. A table and chairs was also set up, to get a "process" of recording done in order, with each rider's ODO recorded on their own clipboard. 

This ride was over the June Long Weekend, and so it was a "double demerit" points weekend, a fact NOT lost on the riders, who proceeded to ride past 8 fixed speed cameras on each lap (160 passes in total) and assorted hidden, mobile camera cars - of which at least four graced the course at different times. The police were well aware of the ride and visited on their police bikes and an un-marked car at one point, discussing long and hard what the "Iron Butt Hotel" (Signed caravan) was actually doing there. Immediately prior to the start, David Rolfe texted in, saying that his Harley had "failed to proceed" even after bump-starting down a hill, with a failed battery. Teaches you to ride it to Perth!

After a very short briefing from Olaf at 3.00am, including a clear safety-first warning, the crew headed off, following him on a "slow" lap so that they could learn the course and the location of the cameras. However, by the time we entered Majura Lane on the first lap, Olaf was passed by three speedsters! Nonetheless we all arrived at the gas station together and chaos ensued as each person met with a Volunteer, who had to find the correct clip board and record their details. Soon we were all headed off on lap two, and the witnesses got together in a huddle and decided to "get this shit sorted". Sian took command and arranged the boards in sequence of the riders leaving the lot, so that the correct one was presented to each rider, then returned to the back of the clip-board-line-up. Of course only Fatman and Lynne had marked their bike and board with a sticker (as requested although few knew what "LTP" stood for until later!) - this would have certainly helped everyone, especially on the change over of staff later on. One rider carried his clipboard, to make life even tougher for the adjudicators.

After a couple of laps, the pace smartened up considerably, as it was still dark with very few cars on the road. The full moon came out and the weather stayed surprisingly mild, rarely getting down to freezing point. My guess is that if it had been minus five celsius, then life would have been much tougher. 

Riders soon got their lines into order, making some serious swoops around the seven round-abouts on the course, a Canberra speciality. Some were already grazing their pegs within a couple of laps. Even a few inches off-line could make for an excessively exciting exit, especially on RA number four, where all signage had been run-down by another vehicle, so arriving at this one was always an adventure, with an off-road option. 

By lap three, I was smiling to myself. My bike has a long range tank fitted, and some of those on more traditional Yamaha-lys were going to be at the pumps after lap three or four. And so it was. This spread the riders out, and as some stopped for gas, food and a pee, this become even more pronounced. Foolish me had drunk tea and water before leaving home, and had to stop mid lap to relieve myself behind a tree - much to the laughter of a couple of other riders! This was not the last time for this little caper either, as the weather became colder, my need became stronger. 

At sun rise the traffic began to build. We had not planned for not one, but three major events at the Exhibition Centre in Canberra (EPIC), so traffic became epic at EPIC with the Farmers Market, Dog Show and Handmade Market all happening at the same time! Thousands of cars entered and left from Northbourne Ave, a good thing at one point as we were slowed unnervingly to a crawl, right past a hiding camera van. God favors the brave on occasion!

And so it continued, lap after lap. On lap fourteen, many riders had retired for a short lunch break, but having been "in front" and noting that this is NOT a race, I was overtaken by Wombattle as I went for my sixth pee and some extra petrol. My support crew were stuffing sandwiches and hot chocolate down my throat at each lap, which was much appreciated. 

We then proceeded to ride together by mutual but unspoken agreement, a delightful exercise as he is such an accomplished rider. Many will know the sheer joy of riding with someone who constantly rides perfect lines and the ideal pace. Wom is one of the very few who meets this standard and is an absolute pleasure to have as a riding mate. 

For the last lap, we were both beat, and he asked me to lead. It was dark and just before 11pm, so I did, and it ended up being one of the most perfect laps we could have had, with  no traffic lights, few cars and a constant pace. At 57 minutes, it was also one of the quickest, but not so fast that were pinged by the hidden camera car at Dairy Flat, aiming at all the ski traffic drivers. While I rode in ahead of Wombattle, he had stopped with me for my final pee, so would have finished at least three minutes ahead if I had let him. So he went for the final receipt, and I followed. How appropriate! Such is the life of the Long Distance Rider, a style and skill that I value in all my mates. 

Others rode into the gas station over the coming hours with the last at 1.24am, well ahead of the 3.15am maximum time. To all of you, congratulations, it was a tough ride with the crazy Canberran traffic, constant stops and starts. And to all the volunteers - we could not have done it without you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

Olly

Butt Lite VIII - Leg 2 - To the Shrine of Gerlach

As the years have gone by, my "bucket list" has become shorter and shorter (to my delight frankly), but one thing has remained for nearly a decade - a visit to the Long Distance Riders Shrine at Gerlach Nevada. But how to get there?

You may have heard of "Burning Man"? This is a festival to beat all festivals, deep in the desert near Gerlach. Once per year in September, strange people vie in breathtaking competition, to attend this "Art and Music Event" - the place? - the Playa (mud pan) in the middle of the desert, north of the tiny village of Gerlach NV. It is truly a remote and spectacular place.  On the hill nearby is a small hand-built shrine to Long Distance Riders (LDR's), in particular those who have won the Iron Butt Rally, and more importantly, those who have died in pursuit of it, or on another ride.

These are the directions (from the Butt Lite VII Rally book);

From the gas station in downtown Gerlach, follow NV 447 .8 mile to the junction of Washoe County 34 and NV 447. Turn right on WC 34 and ride approximately 1.8 miles to Guru Rd. Turn left onto Guru Rd. The IBA memorial is just past the Weather Rock; look for the red picnic table and license plate tree uphill from Guru Road. 40.67847 -119.36080 

For each rider who has passed, there is a small flat stone lying on the ground, with their name engraved. They sit within a circle (of friends) reading with absolute simplicity of their place in the world and their place within it.

To call it awe-inspiring, is to materially under-state its magnificence. The view around is of desert and mud-pans, surrounded by sawing mountains. It is spectacular and breathtaking. It is also a place of incredible beauty. Like many before me, I took a moment to sit on the simple seat beside it and take in the view - and a moment of perfect peace.

For the rest of the leg, we headed north to Oregan, into the pine forests and beyond, stopping for one night in a cabin by the river. I slept soundly for 6 hours and rose at 2.30am to ride on and back to CO. What an incredible and peaceful experience. We will never forget it.

FARKLE'd to Hell

What would you do, or change,  on a perfectly good, new motorcycle?

Modern motorcycles come with a range of customization options already built in. For example, in addition to adjusting the position of the mirrors and the angle of your handlebars, on nearly any modern touring bike you can make other very useful changes, such as adjusting the seat height and position, or the pre-load on your suspension.

The fact is, that most riders DON'T change these things (especially once they are set), but they DO make other changes to their new bikes, soon after buying them. Mostly this is achieved by adding new parts or accessories. The word "FARKLE" was invented for this and means "Fancy Accessory, Really Kool, Likely Expensive". And that tends to be true for any part actually worth having and is a corruption of "Functional" and "Sparkle" invented at a rally in 1997 by Peter Wells.

So where to start?

1. The first place is to take the bike for a ride and reach the mileage (or kilometer-age) required for the first service. Why? Because the mechanic will do two key things for you - (1) replace all the fluids, thus removing the excess metal filings from gearbox, cylinders and final drive and (2), go over the bike and tighten all the fittings, plus checking for adjustment and alignment. I have now twice found that the yolk bolts on my handlebar were loose after the first ride - it pays to check. I also bought a simple cover for my bike both to keep the dust off, and to keep prying eyes away.
2. Second, set up the ride position. I am exactly 6 feet tall in the old money, and that is about two inches (five centimeters) taller than average, so I tend to lean further forward on the standard setup. I therefore add 40 mm "risers" under the handlebars. These give me a more upright riding position, AND they allow me to ride while standing on the pegs. In actual fact on my current bike, 25 mm would have been enough. My second change was to raise the front of the seat slightly (where there are three options on my bike) and may also try a Beadrider or sheep skin cover. I also changed the brake lever and gear stick lever position to suit my ride - flipping the secondary brake pedal over, and adjusting the gear lever for my boot size.
3. Third, as I ride long distances, I installed a pair of highway pegs. For those who don't understand this term, they are like the boot mounts that are far forward on a Harley. I have tried many types and settled with the premium Ilium pegs that fold backwards or up. I love these. 
4. Fourth, as I have dropped my bike a number of times on the side of the road, when I have stopped for a short break, due to un-even surfaces or sand, I bolted on a wider foot piece to my side stand. There are many options for Touratech, Camel-toe and ADV for example.
5. Fifth, I have added a rack, and currently fitted an "hydration system" (water drinking bag) to the rack, but in time will receive my new panniers and attach these. Panniers are one of the most popular accessories, if the bike does not already come with some fitted. 
6. Lastly, at the handlebar, I have added a powered mount for my mobile phone and a second GPS. To listen to all of this, I have installed a Bluetooth headset to my helmet. Mine is a SENA 20S but there are many options out there. For me, this is essential as I can now hear both my GPS and mobile phone. 

So there is a start. My bike is now ride-able for a good long weekend. But where will we go next? As I am a LDR (Long distance Rider) the next options will include a tool kit, LED lights and a long-range auxiliary tank. 

And for those who don't have them already, (as they are already provided on my particular bike), I would strongly recommend a TPMS (tire pressure monitoring systems), tires to suit your style of riding and cruise control!

Butt Lite VIII - Leg 1 - Fireworks

I am pushing a wide broom across the garage floor and thinking hard - what do I do? And subtext - this place is a mess, but at least its a workshop. A pile of parts, food wrappings, cardboard and cigarette butts has built up in the corner at the insistence of my broom. Now I have room to work on my BMW GSAW bike.

Slowly it dawns on me that it's three minutes past mid-night and now July 4th - Independence Day. I have been awake for twenty hours and I am not happy. Having ridden hard and fast to the East from Denver, my aim was Kansas City MO, where two very juicy bonuses sit, and the start of my "Combo Run" to greatness in this Rally. But a couple of miles before Wichita KS, I stopped for a full load of fuel - 10 gallons which turned out to be laced with water. Within three miles, my bike "fails to proceed" as Rolls Royce would say.

As always happens in these situation, someone stops and you work out a plan. This time a dad with three boys offers to drive home and ask his neighbor, a "bikie" to help. He turns out to be Randy Stephenson a most helpful chap. He leads me to an auto mechanic, Bill who has a partner, Will, who is a bike mechanic. But Will is already well and truly lubed up with his mates for 4th of July. I call Progressive Insurance and they transport the bike to Bill's shop with great care, as the driver is on his first day's work from Kansas City. The last thing I need is for the bike to drop off the flat-tray in the main street of Wichita.

Bill then proceeds to fill the tank with HEET a commercial product which is actually methyl-alcohol and disperses the water inside the petrol. At least that is the theory. We start the bike and it runs really rough and hot, and before long the exhaust is glowing red - then the plastic cover catches fire. I can see my dreams going up in smoke, right there and then. We put it out, by squeezing bottles of drinking water over it. Molten plastic drips onto the concrete floor. I feel it is time to go to a hotel, and Bill takes me to one about 5 miles away, promising to be back at 11am the next morning. I am not too sure this will work out.

For the next twenty four hours, Wichita is beset by loud cars, drunken party goers and lots and lots of fireworks. A man in the street near the hotel is arrested for letting his rockets "go too high". Morning comes and I am furiously working on my laptop to find a way to make up the points I am missing for each minute the wheels are not turning. I come up with some great and detailed plans in 'Garmin "BaseCamp". But Bill does not arrive. Eventually his very young son and girlfriend turn up and open the garage at 1pm. Nothing we do works, because I have still not figured out that there is more water in the gas, than gas. He tells me that everyone at the family party (of four generations) is unable to open a door, let alone drive safely. From the noise I can believe it. I am not going to get professional mechanical help on 4 July.

Day three arrives and I am almost giving up on the rally. A kindly old gent from the local bike club appears at the door and tells me he knows a little about BMW's  - the ones with carburetors. I guess he is at least 85, but he calmly works on the bike with me. Will and a bunch of mates roar into the garage on huge choppers, but they are not in a fit state to help - they just want to talk about the rally and I am counting down minutes. I agree with the Tom to pull the crash frame off, the plugs out and the injectors off the bike - Bill helps by finding tools in the chaos behind us. The plugs are cleaned, the injectors are happily spraying water and gas all over the place, and the oxygen sensor is white from running lean - you don't say!

I tell Bill I am going to empty all of the gas out of the auxiliary tank plus the main tank and ask where he wants me to put it. I pull the quick-release on the auxiliary line. No reply brings a response that I will pour it in the paddock next door and drop a match on it. He thinks this is a bad idea as the local sheriff is parading up and down the street, and comes to the rescue with a pressure thank, usually used for storing used oil. The first bucket comes out mostly water. Ahaha. Tick Tock.

Four and a half buckets later, we are clear of gas and use a pressure hose to get the rest out. It is a serious mess. His son Brad, who turns out to have just turned 16, goes out and gets a new one-gallon gas drum and some fresh gas. He and I are the only people in the whole place who are with it. We put the bike back together and it starts first time, using a battery starter. Thank god for small mercies.

But with everyone talking to me and at me, I am desperate to get the hell out of Dodge. I pay Bill and load the bike and text the Rally van, "back on the road". "Awesome" replies Bart, and I am very pleased that someone is so positive! Roadworks make getting out of Wichita a nightmare, but I am heading down I70 at a rate of knots. With a moving average over 88 mph and minimal stops every four hundred miles for gas, this is a serious race against time - and a huge crowd is watching my SPOT track. Will he make it in time? I make one chosen stop, the AMES bonus, a foolish move as it is down a gravel road, at dusk and takes 25 minutes.

19 hours later, and One hour and 38 minutes into the penalty window, I arrive exhausted in Reno NV. But I Am still in the rally to a tumultuous welcome. Smiles are back, we are in, despite a huge drop in points! The briefing for leg 2 is happening in ten, and I have yet again, been awake 26 hours.

In Anticipation; (of Butt Lite VIII)

There is pleasure to be had in anticipation of a great event.

Tomorrow before dawn, I fly from Canberra to Brisbane, then to LAX and Albuquerque to prepare for the six-day competitive rally called "Butt Lite 8". Essentially it is a Continent-wide scavenger hunt, with no prizes of value, only glory. Frankly, I cannot wait. Here in Canberra (Australia's capital city), the weather is cold, with snow forecast so there is the added attraction of heading to a north American summer - but not the raging heat of Death Valley or Arizona deserts.

This competition runs every second year, alternate to the Iron Butt Rally and starts in Denver CO in 2016. The first Check Point is in Reno NV and as they Rally-Master (in this case actually a Rally Mistress) says - Canada check points are in the book! While the theme is not yet known the fact that we will stop at "Boom Town Casino and Resort" would indicate that we are heading to the ghost towns of the USA - of which there are hundreds, mostly deserted, but up some of the more challenging roads of North America.

At a recent dinner, a long-time friend of my age asked "why do you do it, what is the attraction"? this gave me cause for thought, but it comes down to two stark things;
1. I love riding motorcycles. It is a bit like the pony express - travel the wildest parts of our country, with face and hair in the wind, feeling the acceleration, the exploration of parts unknown and the freedom.
2. To be with friends of a like mind. LDR's (Long Distance Riders) are frankly a weird bunch. They know it and like the moniker. I will catch up with some lifelong friends at the start, middle and end of the rally, tell stories and at the end, share a few beers. I have learnt one thing about this mob - despite the huge variance in their home countries, ages, background, experience and personal history, there is nothing they will not do for a fellow rider. This loyalty, particularly among men, is very rare. (Noting that there are some excellent female riders too, some of which leave the men in their dust on a regular basis, and earn our collective respect no matter what. Aussies would call them "guys" or "blokes" without fear, too).

This year I will do little to my bike. At the start one of the delights is Farkle'ing your bike (If I remember correctly this word stands for "Fancy Accessory, Really Kool, Likely Expensive". But after a few rallies, focus comes down to reducing weight and putting your mind to effective navigation. So, now my effort will go into getting enough sleep before the event, getting my laptop and GPS's up to date and giving a few hugs. See you all in Denver!

PS, most riders use a SPOT device for tracking, so you can follow them from the Team Strange web page (www.teamstrange.com) and also via the BL8 Blog - a daily missive of distracting details, silly stories and practical details.

First Thoughts on Tires (Tyres for the Aussies and Poms)

Tires are a vexed matter for long distance riders. The Michelin Anakees that came on the bike are very sticky but rarely lasted more than 3500 miles for me on the rear. I don't believe I am strong on the wrist, but wear indicates otherwise. 

I then went to Metzler ME880, that I have had a good run with in the past on BMWs. They were ok.

After that, I chose the new Michelin Pilot Road 4's which have been my favorites. There are two models, the "Trail" which is softer in the middle and ideal for the front tire (14,000 miles easy) and the "GT" which is better on the rear, it being a little harder in the center stripe. I have used both on the rear tho, and get about the same number of miles around 6000 to 7000 for a rear. So I used two for IBR.

Right now I have a Heidenau K60 on the rear of my bike. For anything off road it is excellent. Also in hot weather on the hard-top. In November last year, I crashed my bike in very cold conditions with snow on the road, using this tire and believe in part, the tire was to blame, as my counter-steer did not work. For wear they are excellent, a lot better than the PR4's, but you need to know what you are riding. In my view, most people who don't like the K60 are not great riders, but then I might be biased.

I did consider a car tire for the IBR in 2017, and received considerable flack from the forums on even thinking this! But it would be good and unusual on a GSA!